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admin
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Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 1826
Location: Greater Boston
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 Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:20 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| john p wrote: |
An example of how to build a middle class without stealing from the rich is the concept and introdcution of LLC's and I think S-Corps. The LLC (Limited Liability Company) business structure was great for small businesses. In 1996 they had a big push on these and many start-up models used them.
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Yeah, except here in Massachusetts where legislators have totally missed the point of S-Corps and LLCs. Your business has to pay $600+ yearly for the privilege of existing in those forms, even if you earn nothing, whereas the cost in other states is more on the order of $20. It as an incredibly unfriendly policy toward incubation of local small businesses (and unfortunately, it's not the only unfriendly policy).
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:08 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| GenExer, I repeat my point that a true capitalistst is constantly aware of competition from other places, is not so arrogant to assume that the US is perfect and the best place on earth and is open minded to learning from other places. I think you are displaying a GM, Chrysler kind of arrogant attitude. |
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balor123
Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 1204
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 12:54 am GMT Post subject: |
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| GenXer wrote: | | What does it matter what 'historic' is? When you take from Peter to pay Paul, this is socialism. It is wrong, and it is not the American way. 'Progressive' tax rate is also wrong, and having a huge government which has too much control is wrong. Nowhere in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights does it say that I have to support illegal aliens and those who do not want to work, as well as to provide Cadillacs for welfare recipients and in-state tuition for illegal aliens. Nowhere does it say that the wealth we earn has to be spread around. We've always been a generous country with a very high upward mobility potential because of the opportunities available here, but taking my money to perpetuate a ponzi schemes such as social security, and to raise our taxes instead of laying off government workers is socialism, an it is wrong, regardless of what is the 'norm' historically. Having bad policy previously does not justify what is currently hapening. The reason we are doing well is precisely because lower taxes and less government means better economy for the rest of the country. |
I wouldn't use the word "wrong" because it is not well defined. It is perhaps unfair but I don't recall the constitution or bill of rights guaranteeing fairness. Don't forget housing in your list of housing ponzi schemes by the way. The government's responsibility is to do what works for its citizens, whether its socialism or capitalism or something else. Americans don't seem to see this and worse yet we impose our thinking on others. A big government can be good if it benefits its citizens. I don't think that is the case right now though. We put up with an increasingly large upper class over the past few decades because it helped the country. When it stops helping the country, like it does now, it's not clear that we should perpetuate the current system. Reform is needed to ensure that when some benefit everyone benefits. Otherwise we'll revert back to classicism, where only a small portion of the citizens benefit from government. |
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Boston ITer
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 1:30 am GMT Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I don't think that is the case right now though. We put up with an increasingly large upper class over the past few decades because it helped the country. When it stops helping the country, like it does now, it's not clear that we should perpetuate the current system. |
Right now, we've become completely dependent upon the Soros, Buffett, and Gates Foundations to do all the work to maintain a sustainable society. In a sense, it's an attempt at redistributing wealth, via the top 0.01% of society, but it's completely at the whim of the Foundation managers. I presume this is probably the best we can hope for in a time where in fact, wealth does tend to accumulate, in a handful of parties much like the Rockefellers, Carnegies, and Vanderbilts, a century ago. |
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GenXer
Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 703
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:01 am GMT Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | GenExer, I repeat my point that a true capitalistst is constantly aware of competition from other places, is not so arrogant to assume that the US is perfect and the best place on earth and is open minded to learning from other places. I think you are displaying a GM, Chrysler kind of arrogant attitude. |
Arrogant? If you are implying that me saying that USA is an exceptional country unlike any other, than I'm guilty as charged. USA is not perfect by any means, of course, but I think we have very little to learn from other countries, other than what NOT to do (which is a lesson we have not learned well yet). |
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Boston ITer
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 4:43 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | USA is not perfect by any means, of course, but I think we have very little to learn from other countries |
I always see the relationship between the US and other nations as that of 'the market' vs 'the cultures'. The US is seen as the market, as other cultures are either too homogeneous, i.e. Japan, Korea, Germany, etc, or too heterogeneous and thus disconnected, i.e. Brazil, South Africa, ex-Soviet Russia, as the culture. People tend to stay in the non-USA countries for cultural enrichment or perhaps the flipside, being a type of non-assimilated diaspora, see Japanese in Brazil or South Indians in South Africa, but the US is where the money is to be made because it's 'the market'. And the reason for the market is that the US is a more integrated and assimilated society despite many national origins (outside of the original UK base). This is paradoxical because very few arrangements, around the world, are like this. I'd traveled quite a bit but the one thing I'd always noticed was the tone/quality of each nation to their relationship to America. The other Anglo-Saxon govts like Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, however, have taken the heterogeneous path (a.k.a. multiculturalism which is not-really-a-true melting pot) & incorporated statism which doesn't assist in the assimilation, as people stay in their original clans and don't want to branch out, to be a part of 'the market' whereas you'll seldom meet a second or third generation American who doesn't see himself as American first, and the laundry list of ethnic backgrounds, second or third. |
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GenXer
Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 703
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 2:38 am GMT Post subject: |
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That's exactly right - in many other countries, outsiders and immigrants always remain outsiders, while in US, whoever you are, once you are integrated, you are treated as an American first. The beauty of our culture is that you do NOT have to give up your own culture that you bring from your country of origin. It is always there, and it is accepted as long as you accept that you are an American first. I think this is a fair bargain.
A note on wealth distribution. Distribution of wealth in the world is governed by power laws, which are scale-invariant:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle
therefore, this law almost always holds. That is why it is not true that 'rich are getting richer and poor are getting poorer' (because poor are also getting richer, and rich are also getting poorer all at the same time) and that while it is true that 10% of the people control all the wealth, but its like saying that the earth is round. Just some context. |
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Boston ITer
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:58 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The beauty of our culture is that you do NOT have to give up your own culture that you bring from your country of origin. It is always there, and it is accepted as long as you accept that you are an American first. |
Interesting to note, this is less so in the States vs even Canada. The idea is that one's ancestors' cultures in more that of a historical society/special interests club then that of America. If you go to Quebec or Nova Scotia, there's such a French or Scottish slant that they'd think that it was an addendum to Paris or Glasgow than its own country. So in fact, when you wander the American states, the whole notion of a generalized... 1/4 British, 1/4 Slavic, 1/4 French, 1/4 Native American identification is laughed at by the average person, outside of certain places in the Bayou or ethnic neighborhoods like in Brooklyn. And I believe part of the reason why so many sub-nationalities intermarried, esp during the 20th century, was because of this lack of identification with a mother ship outside of the US. |
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