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Metrowest

 
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wherzmyhome
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:59 pm GMT    Post subject: Metrowest Reply with quote

So I am writing after a long time with still no home to call my own. Earlier this year I decided to move from my 2 bed/1 bath apt in Waltham to the metrowest town where I would "like" to own a home. Since I was not finding any house that was moderately priced AND not scooped up in 10 hours after listing it, I decided to move to this town by renting....it is a 2 bed 1.5 bath townhouse with a little more privacy and a nice little deck and backyard compared to Waltham. Rent is almost the same, except I now pay abt $150 in utilities. So far so good, although I would love to own a house some day for my kids who are growing up soooo fast.

What is with metrowest anyway. The Boroughs, Hopkinton, Ashland are just hot hot markets, it looks like. This property got listed on 29th July for $499k. Next day the buyer decided to up the price to $529k, and by the same day evening the house was under contract! Really?! Was there ever a recession here? Is the housing market really turning ppl? I still think a lot of ppl cannot afford the prices of single family homes, but then who cares about affordability anymore. I spend sleepless nights thinking of $2200 mortgages, $600 prop. taxes and $500 of util/maintenance with a SFR compared to my simpler living of abt $1600 right now - but I guess its not the same for others.
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FormerOwner
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:57 am GMT    Post subject: Conventional wisdom Reply with quote

Everyone is convinced that this IS THE Best time to buy a home because Interest Rates are low. Of course, Low interest rates lead people to borrow even more money driving up the costs of homes in the short term.

What will happen? The economy rebounds and we are living in a world of rising interest rates and raising home prices. Or perhaps inflation becomes a massive problem because of the Federal Reserve keeping interest rates low and pumping liquidity (CASH) into the economy.

But, this rebound in the economy would have to match the 1990s to make up for the impact of rising interest rates.

Real Estate is directly correlated to interest rates - and no one believes that housing prices will ever go down -

Have some portion of your house fund in things that go up with inflation - Gold,
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still_looking
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:03 pm GMT    Post subject: same boat here Reply with quote

I hear ya, wherzmyhome. We're in the same boat: been looking for a LONG time, and the kid is just growing up way too fast. I like being able to save money for the long term stuff and being debt free. I'm also having trouble wrapping my head around the idea of paying an extra $600/month just for the sake of owning. Do people not take into account taxes and such when buying? Perhaps that tax break is really that big! The way it's been going for us, is that if I start looking at a certain town, that town almost certainly goes up in median price. We're probably going to end up renting in the town we're hoping to buy in, and just take that route. I told hubby that if we don't buy before the kid is done with HS, we're taking the trip of a lifetime with the down payment once he is sent off to college!
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JCK



Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 559

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:02 pm GMT    Post subject: Re: Conventional wisdom Reply with quote

FormerOwner wrote:
Everyone is convinced that this IS THE Best time to buy a home because Interest Rates are low. Of course, Low interest rates lead people to borrow even more money driving up the costs of homes in the short term.

What will happen? The economy rebounds and we are living in a world of rising interest rates and raising home prices. Or perhaps inflation becomes a massive problem because of the Federal Reserve keeping interest rates low and pumping liquidity (CASH) into the economy.

But, this rebound in the economy would have to match the 1990s to make up for the impact of rising interest rates.

Real Estate is directly correlated to interest rates - and no one believes that housing prices will ever go down -

Have some portion of your house fund in things that go up with inflation - Gold,


If you're concerned about inflation, putting your money into hard assets (e.g., housing) and racking up some debt locked at today's low rates seems like a really good idea. Your debt will get inflated away and your asset will increase in value!
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JCK



Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 559

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:18 pm GMT    Post subject: Re: same boat here Reply with quote

still_looking wrote:
I'm also having trouble wrapping my head around the idea of paying an extra $600/month just for the sake of owning. Do people not take into account taxes and such when buying? Perhaps that tax break is really that big!


Tax benefits can easily be several hundred dollars a month. If you take out a $400,000 30-year loan at 3.5% and you're in the 25% bracket, your interest portion of your payment is $1166. Your tax benefit is therefore 25% of that or $291.

While some point out that you lose the standard deduction by itemizing interest expenses, they often forget that you can deduct your state income taxes, which, in many cases just about cancels out the loss of the standard deduction.

Second, you pay principal on the loan. That counts as savings, not an expense. For the above loan, you're paying $629/mo in principal.

Taxes are also tax deductible on your federal returns. If you have $6000/yr taxes, the after tax amount is really only $4500/mo, or about $375/mo.

Then you do have to factor in the maintenance costs; obviously if your water heater breaks, that's something covered by rent, but not by mortgage payment.

So looking just at principal ($629), interest ($1166) and taxes ($500), the gross payment on that $500,000 house with a $100,000 down payment is $2296. But you get back over $400 in tax benefits and are paying over $600/mo in principal.

Your net outlay is therefore only about $1300.

Just some food for thought. My point is simply that spending $600/mo more on owning can, depending on circumstances, actually cost you less each month.

There are of course other issues. If you're trying to start a business and need capital, tying up $100k in a home is probably a really bad idea...
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CJ
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:50 pm GMT    Post subject: Re: Metrowest Reply with quote

wherzmyhome wrote:

What is with metrowest anyway. The Boroughs, Hopkinton, Ashland are just hot hot markets, it looks like. This property got listed on 29th July for $499k. Next day the buyer decided to up the price to $529k, and by the same day evening the house was under contract! Really?! Was there ever a recession here? Is the housing market really turning ppl? I still think a lot of ppl cannot afford the prices of single family homes, but then who cares about affordability anymore. I spend sleepless nights thinking of $2200 mortgages, $600 prop. taxes and $500 of util/maintenance with a SFR compared to my simpler living of abt $1600 right now - but I guess its not the same for others.


I went to about 8 open houses this summer, most are in Boroughs, Hopkinton, Ashland and Framingham. What I found is different. A lot of houses are sitting for months. Only those priced around assessment got sold. Most are cheaper ones (300k-400k, or to probably 425k).

I was really late to an open house last Sunday. The house is priced slightly lower than 450k in Marborough. There were only 3 people before me and I was the last one. I don't think the market is hot at all, unless its Greater Boston or some towns with great schools.

BTW, actually the condo market in Framingham and Marborough is collapsing. SFH market is doing fine, mainly because of lowest interest rate.
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CL
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:31 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

In today's post credit crisis world, a reoccuring theme is while the cost of credit dropped (in form of mortgage rate), the access to credit remains high at least compare to bubble times.

Which means, for buyers who actually have access and ability to carry credit, they can have lots of it in a cheap price. And if you can actually safely borrow a large amount of mortgage, you naturally want to buy a better house, ie in a better location. People don't upgrade your house by going 2500 sq ft to 3500 sq ft. They upgrade by going from Watertown to Newton.

Thus I think the main beneficiary of low interest rate is Lexington/Wellesley/Newton/Brookline/Belmont of the world, where you can hear news of crazy bidding wars. Less desirable location will have a MUCH tougher time for recovery.
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wherezmyhome
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:54 pm GMT    Post subject: Re: Metrowest Reply with quote

CJ wrote:
wherzmyhome wrote:

What is with metrowest anyway. The Boroughs, Hopkinton, Ashland are just hot hot markets, it looks like. This property got listed on 29th July for $499k. Next day the buyer decided to up the price to $529k, and by the same day evening the house was under contract! Really?! Was there ever a recession here? Is the housing market really turning ppl? I still think a lot of ppl cannot afford the prices of single family homes, but then who cares about affordability anymore. I spend sleepless nights thinking of $2200 mortgages, $600 prop. taxes and $500 of util/maintenance with a SFR compared to my simpler living of abt $1600 right now - but I guess its not the same for others.


I went to about 8 open houses this summer, most are in Boroughs, Hopkinton, Ashland and Framingham. What I found is different. A lot of houses are sitting for months. Only those priced around assessment got sold. Most are cheaper ones (300k-400k, or to probably 425k).

I was really late to an open house last Sunday. The house is priced slightly lower than 450k in Marborough. There were only 3 people before me and I was the last one. I don't think the market is hot at all, unless its Greater Boston or some towns with great schools.

BTW, actually the condo market in Framingham and Marborough is collapsing. SFH market is doing fine, mainly because of lowest interest rate.



I should say I did not have Marlborough in my mind when I mentioned the Boroughs. You are right, the selling was slow all of winter and even during spring, although I have noticed people pouncing on properties that are move in ready even though they are asking, 50-60k over assessed value. SFRs ofcourse. Guess I will be waiting a while....Sad
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:01 pm GMT    Post subject: Re: same boat here Reply with quote

JCK wrote:
still_looking wrote:
I'm also having trouble wrapping my head around the idea of paying an extra $600/month just for the sake of owning. Do people not take into account taxes and such when buying? Perhaps that tax break is really that big!


Tax benefits can easily be several hundred dollars a month. If you take out a $400,000 30-year loan at 3.5% and you're in the 25% bracket, your interest portion of your payment is $1166. Your tax benefit is therefore 25% of that or $291.

While some point out that you lose the standard deduction by itemizing interest expenses, they often forget that you can deduct your state income taxes, which, in many cases just about cancels out the loss of the standard deduction.

Second, you pay principal on the loan. That counts as savings, not an expense. For the above loan, you're paying $629/mo in principal.

Taxes are also tax deductible on your federal returns. If you have $6000/yr taxes, the after tax amount is really only $4500/mo, or about $375/mo.

Then you do have to factor in the maintenance costs; obviously if your water heater breaks, that's something covered by rent, but not by mortgage payment.

So looking just at principal ($629), interest ($1166) and taxes ($500), the gross payment on that $500,000 house with a $100,000 down payment is $2296. But you get back over $400 in tax benefits and are paying over $600/mo in principal.

Your net outlay is therefore only about $1300.

Just some food for thought. My point is simply that spending $600/mo more on owning can, depending on circumstances, actually cost you less each month.

There are of course other issues. If you're trying to start a business and need capital, tying up $100k in a home is probably a really bad idea...


Nice analysis JCK. So one would be paying $1300 per month to just upgrade their lifestyle from an apt to an SFR, with pretty much no chance of getting it back. That $1300 in the bank @ 1% would do a lot better in the long run, without the hassle of home repairs if we rent. Just playing devil's advocate here as you can tell. Then again, home ownership is not always a financially sound decision, there is an emotional and quality of life aspect to it as well.
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JCK



Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 559

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:28 pm GMT    Post subject: Re: same boat here Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:


Nice analysis JCK. So one would be paying $1300 per month to just upgrade their lifestyle from an apt to an SFR, with pretty much no chance of getting it back. That $1300 in the bank @ 1% would do a lot better in the long run, without the hassle of home repairs if we rent. Just playing devil's advocate here as you can tell. Then again, home ownership is not always a financially sound decision, there is an emotional and quality of life aspect to it as well.


Can you explain your logic? I'm really not following. How is the homeowner paying "$1300/mo to upgrade"?

You're paying $1300 outlay for the purchase vs. your rent (whatever that is), not $1300 over and above the cost to rent.

So I think you're completely misreading what I've written.
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JCK



Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 559

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:33 pm GMT    Post subject: Re: same boat here Reply with quote

JCK wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


Nice analysis JCK. So one would be paying $1300 per month to just upgrade their lifestyle from an apt to an SFR, with pretty much no chance of getting it back. That $1300 in the bank @ 1% would do a lot better in the long run, without the hassle of home repairs if we rent. Just playing devil's advocate here as you can tell. Then again, home ownership is not always a financially sound decision, there is an emotional and quality of life aspect to it as well.


Can you explain your logic? I'm really not following. How is the homeowner paying "$1300/mo to upgrade"?

You're paying $1300 outlay for the purchase vs. your rent (whatever that is), not $1300 over and above the cost to rent.

So I think you're completely misreading what I've written.


Unless of course you have free rent right now. Then it would be $1300/mo increase...
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marcssteve
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:20 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

The interest rates are not low even now also, yeah, but on the other hand it can be said that they are comparatively lower than the interest rates of the future. Many people do not buy the houses, waiting for the interest rates to come down. The probability is very less. Hence its better to own a house now than to own in the future. Moreover the recession in the markets also cannot be predicted.
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admin
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Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 1826
Location: Greater Boston

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:11 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

marcssteve wrote:
The interest rates are not low even now...


Could you substantiate that conclusion? It seems to contradict history:

http://mortgage-x.com/general/historical_rates.asp

- admin
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CL
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:35 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have to say though, after the annoucement of QE3, the mortgage rate (as noted in Fannie Mae MBS price) is dropping like a stone. And with the QE3 being an open ended commitment to purchase MBS (thereby keeping rate lower and possibly pushing it even lower) until unemployment improves (therefore housing market can stand on its own feet) fully recovers, I have to say I will be more bullish to housing market than before.

If anything else, I think the risk is not not having a recovery, but the forming of another credit bubble 10-20 years down the line.
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marcssteve
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:31 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

admin wrote:
marcssteve wrote:
The interest rates are not low even now...


Could you substantiate that conclusion? It seems to contradict history:

http://mortgage-x.com/general/historical_rates.asp

- admin


Thanks Admin for providing the link. Its very informative and found it useful too. Well, I may be wrong, but there are many places where the interest rates are still not affordable for a common man for owning a house. In fact he pays more than the actual amount of the house. However I was much concerned about the future rates of the interest, which would indeed be much more higher than that of the interest rates of today.
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