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Xenos
Joined: 24 Jun 2009 Posts: 31 Location: Western Mass
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Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:51 am GMT Post subject: |
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I don't have a lot of faith in macroeconomic analysis reaching the level of certainty you are seeking here. Maybe we can address it with hypotheticals - if in 2003 the fed raised rates so that mortgages were at rates of, say, 8%, would that have ameliorated the bubble?
I am not convinced that it would, because the widespread lending of interest-only loans to NINJAs would still have happened. Maybe it would be worse because the mortgage-backed securities produced would have yielded more, been more profitable, and been more widely used, displacing and undermining traditional FNMA standards even further. Those loans would cost more, but not that much more compared to the windfall that the bubbling market provided.
So one could argue that the collapse of underwriting standards, a/k/a the thorough corruption of Wall Street and the GSE, was a much more proximate cause of the bubble than recklessly low interest rates.
Can the legal and regulatory environment be quantified in such a way as to integrated into an economic analysis? I don't think so, but I am way out of my area of expertise here. |
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GenXer
Joined: 20 Feb 2009 Posts: 703
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Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:52 pm GMT Post subject: |
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Nobody knows what would have happened. All of this is speculation, nothing more. What we do know is that under certain circumstances, raising interest rates fast (and I think that's the key here - the speed with which the rates are raised) may have a negative effect on house prices, especially in the presence of a weak economy (i.e. high unemployment). This is not a statement of fact - this is a hypothesis that we'll probably get a chance to test sometime down the road. |
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balor123
Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 1204
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:11 am GMT Post subject: |
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GenXer wrote: |
The problem with the 0.25% short term rate is that if the banks can get all the money they want for 0.25%, they don't need to pay more than that to us, the savers. If the rate was 5%, the banks would have to pay at least this much to savers to use their money.
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The Fed was formed to be the lender of last resort after the Great Depression. But once it was a lender funny how it could become the lender of primary resort, forcing banks to set interest rates to their liking. |
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balor123
Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 1204
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:15 am GMT Post subject: |
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Kaidran wrote: | It is a backdoor bailout to allow the banks to recapitalize by increasing profits in the near future to cover inevitable losses not yet recorded on their books. The rates have steadily dropped over the last few months, however with no change to the base fed rate. What will happen next is anyone's guess but if the rates go up prices will come down to compensate unless wages start going up. |
Yup a plan to help shore up their balance sheets so they can write off losses. But it doesn't really work since they have to compete for employees and financial companies pay unheardof ratios of revenue as compensation. Instead, it's really just going to the employees. They know they'll get the bailout when the time comes.
Working in an industry that's cutthroat and for a division that hasn't made money in 7 years, I find it a bit unfair that other industries get guaranteed money from the government while we struggle to compete with other countries. Totally unfair. |
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balor123
Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 1204
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:19 am GMT Post subject: |
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Xenos wrote: |
So one could argue that the collapse of underwriting standards, a/k/a the thorough corruption of Wall Street and the GSE, was a much more proximate cause of the bubble than recklessly low interest rates.
Can the legal and regulatory environment be quantified in such a way as to integrated into an economic analysis? I don't think so, but I am way out of my area of expertise here. |
GenXer and I were arguing in a different thread that bubbles likely can't be prevent but limiting leverage could have significantly limited the impact of it popping. 2008 could have been the year that bankers just got smaller bonuses instead of The Great Recession. The flipside is that without the leverage a bunch of baby boomers might not have made a lot of money for doing except being born at a fortuitous time. |
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