bostonbubble.com

[mpr]

[john p]

The "blue dots" in a sea of red are the highly populated cities sprinkled outside of metro Boston.

If you look at almost any election recently, you can see a trend that the less populated areas typically go Republican and the more densly populated areas go Democrat. You can't deny that.

If you go West of 495, the house prices will be significantly less than metro Boston area as well. In a wealth redistribution scheme, money goes to the poorer cities as well as the more rural areas.

This is true of the more rural states.

One of the "elites" big criticisms of the "Tea Party Movement" is that they are unsophisticated rednecks who don't make much money to begin with and therefore don't pay as much taxes and the increase in taxes on the rich won't affect them so they aren't voting their own interest and that they are delusional and are blindly following the propaganda of Fox News.... something like that right?

The difference between the people who live in rural areas and those that live in cities is that rural areas tend to have more owner occupied properties so they pay property tax while the people who rent pay neither property tax or income tax.

Sometimes a poor town gets a bundle of State Aid and because the size of their Town Government is small, the State Aid ends up being a bigger percentage of their Budget.

The last dynamic is the affect of the bubble on the way up and on the way down.

here is the data on the way up:

http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2006/04/07/median_housing_prices_chart/

Now look at a sample of the changes in prices:

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Graphic/2006/09/08/1157746908_7116.jpg

I'm trying to find this chart that the Globe does where you can see the year over year changes in houses. Now if the State bases Local Aid based on "Equalized Valuation", as that changes from town to town to city because some towns are being hit harder, the flow of the redistribution will follow it. Obviously, the cities outside of Boston will feel it worst so they will receive more State Aid than before. Now, because cities have a smaller percentage of home owners than towns, the voters who aren't home owners are less concerned about property taxes. Because so many people in cities don't pay property taxes they are less engaged in the spending of their community. When they vote their own interest, they want more and more services because someone else (in their mind) is paying.

My comments are aimed at the vicious cycle where you have big political machines, you have corruption and with enough voters who don't care about the spending because they're not paying for it, when times get tough they don't have the discipline to grip the situation.

Bush was complicit in the extension of Clinton's 'homeownership society" because he felt that if people owned, they would be more engaged and disciplined with public spending. I think both Parties wanted more people to own, but let it happen too quickly and got stung with the Bubble.

[Kaidran]

Do you read what you write?

Democrats promoted homeownership because of excessive optimism and audacity.

Bush promoted homeownership to increase community engagement and spending discipline.

Wow.

I heard a segment about the Tea Parties on NPR yesterday. They were trying to figure out who they were and what they stood for. They described them statistically as white, over 45, fiscally disciplined, above average education and income, and less interested than average in gay marriage and abortion.

Damn you liberal media!

[john p]

Yes, I read what I read Kadrian. That was such an abusive statement, you bully, I think I am going to cry.

Yes, Kadrian, in a two party system of government you'd hope that one party would help moderate the other so that the pendulum didn't swing too far one way, but in some cases, both parties might have an interest in letting something go along.

Democrats believe that it was a person's "Right" to own a home not a "Privilege", just as they say Health Care is a right not a privilige. They came at it from an "entitlement" mentality.

Republicans believed that you can convert a Democrat by making them pitch in and pay their fair share of taxes, the underlying value being that if you give someone something for nothing they won't value it and if it is an "Open Bar" policy and the rich have to pay, the Democrats will end up getting the upper hand by manufacturing more handouts. More handouts means more Democrats.

I dont' know what your statement means:

[mpr]

[john p]

Another thing, Republican Charlie Baker's Lt. Governor Candidate, Richard Tisei is openly gay, as other Republican Lt. Governor Candidates have been.

The left wing is trying to collect all socially liberal people and those that are fiscally conservative and socially liberal have to choose.

In Massachusetts the Republican Party allows you to be both fiscally conservative and socially liberal. That takes a lot of courage.

I have always said that I'm closest to a Log Cabin Rebulican.

[john p]

MPR says:

[mpr]

[Kaidran]

Well, I guess all I can say is: fuck you. You think I am a coward because I get annoyed by your rants. You made reference to my immigration status then started a complained about how Europeans commenting on the US have no valid opinions because the seek to simply bash the US. Guess what, I dont see you shy to bash Europe so its probably going to come back your way some time too.

Your "bullying posts" are pages and pages of text opinion without any attempt to discuss anything, merely to steamroller your opinions on us mere mortals. I honestly cannot understand where you get the time to write it all.

I find it phenomenally amusing that the tea party people harp on about "liberty" but are so keen on telling other people how to lead their lives.

I dont have anyone to hide behind, I am disappointed with the Democrats and disagree with many policies. I cannot vote yet but even if I could I dont feel anyone represents my views. The irony is on a lot of things I would probably agree with you but your visceral hatred or all things Democrat make you impossible to take seriously.

[john p]

Kadrian said:

[john p]

Oh, another thing today, New Hampshire is now having votes on whether to provide casinos and slot machines to stem the loss of potential casino revenue from New Hampshire to Massachusetts and they are going to target them on the Massachusetts Border.

Now if liberals care about the poor, why aren't they speaking out?

We are going to drain all the poor's wealth all over New England. We'll have casino after casino in New England.

Then, you'll wish you had guys like me who "bloviated" about days gone past when we had values about helping and protecting the poor instead of preying on them. Without those values we'll be an armpit like Atlantic City. If I were you, I'd wait and see if this area is going to decline because of the polluted politicians and degeneration of the values. And to think Deval Patrick, the "man of the people" was the one who opened the door to the casino predators who prey on the weakest among us.

Now if people saw past the "Democrat" and saw that he collected hundreds of thousands of dollars from Ameriquest, a predatory lender, they would have seen his true colors.

[john p]

MLS # 71041962 - Back on Market
Single Family - Detached

70 Indian Pond Rd List Price: $449,900
Kingston, MA 02364-2003
Plymouth County
Style: Colonial Color:
Total Rooms: 10 Bedrooms: 4
Full/Half/Master Baths: 2/1/ Fireplaces: 0
Grade School: Middle School:
High School:
Neighborhood/Sub-Division:
Directions: Elm St to Indian Pond (entrance to driveway is next to mailbox #74 - property is set back from Rd)

This house is a friggin mansion for $450k. 3.75 acres 3,100 square feet, beautiful setting.

My entire point, the entire time has been based on this. In the poem where it says:

"If not our hearts the cubits warp for fear to be a king". A "cubit" is a ruler or tape measure to measure length. When we look up to people like they are "elites" we are warping our perception to make them measure up grander than what they really are. And that is based on "fear". When people pay ridiculous amounts for a tiny shack in an "elite" town, they are falling under a delusion of hero worship of elites.

Why else would someone buy a shack to live near "elites" versus live in their own mansion for the same amount of money?

[Kaidran]

Yeah, that is right, I did not buy a house because I like to follow the crowd. I live in a crappy rental and have Quiznos as a special treat because I'm so elite. Maybe its because I want my kids to grow up and know things that makes me elite, if that is the case then yes, you got me.

You know nothing about me so please do not presume you do, especially because your view is so blinkered.

I was in Mass for Patrick's election, I must have missed his pro rapist stance. ...or possibly, just possibly you are taking something spun to you out of context and running with it because it suits what you want to believe. Same with the Rod Blagoavich (sp?) bullshit. He is undoubtedly a slimy little weasel and probably should be in jail but you would happily believe anything he said if it was negative for Obama. That would seem to fit with mpr's recent comments on your map. You will take the points that agree with what you want to believe and conveniently forget the rest.

I was not putting forth a view on the GM podcast, except that I found the whole story fascinating. You retreated to the point where anything said against the US was simply "US bashing" then went on to bash the parts of the US you dont like as a proud "patriot". Can you see the hypocrisy? If I was to take anything from the podcast it would be that when people separate themselves into factions and refuse to listen to their counterparts view, then develop a level of mistrust so extreme that they cannot visualize a common goal, then bad things happen. Does that sound familiar to you at all?

[Kaidran]

When I look at houses closer to Boston it is so I dont piss away hours driving each day, I'd rather have that extra time at work or with my family and I hate the idea of being so completely dependent on a car.

Again you simple fit the data to support the model you started with.

[john p]

I lived in Waltham and it took me about an hour to get into where I work in Boston. I have a colleague who works in Newton and it takes him an hour and twenty to get into downtown.

Your podcast was about Union bashing. I think Unions are hurting our Country so I'm not defending them. I have been telling a lot of people about that NUMMI Plant. This I don't understand about you, I am not trying to ignore anyone who is being critical about the United States, that is ok with me, I was just pointing out that many in Europe like to bash the United States and that liberals give Unions a pass because they are fellow Democrats.

This whole thread is about why someone will pay like $250k more for a house when it is in one town versus another. At a certain point, the spreadsheets and numbers don't add up, it gets into a psychological realm. In most cases, a person who would have bought that tiny house for $487k would have been a "Want to Be", someone who wanted to rub shoulders with rich people and brag about what town they lived in. Elitism works because it gets people to overpay for things.

Your right, I don't know you at all. I guess someone who listens to NPR and is looking at $487k tiny shacks is someone I might try to help out by saying, hey, if you're willing to look beyond what the "elites" show you on the menu, you could get an awful lot more for your money. I would feel really bad for someone who paid that kind of money for that tiny place and then be hit with the bigger taxes we might get, that would be a sad story that I wouldn't want any one to have.

I honestly don't want to hassle you, God knows I find no enjoyment in it.

Here is a copy of the letter:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/politics/candidates/articles/2006/10/04/april_patrick_letter/