bostonbubble.com

[Boston ITer]

I'm aiming this line of reasoning to other Boston area residents, basically those who're in the culture of higher education equals both intrinsic value to society and a good paying job. At the moment, we're seeing a real loss of interest in the toughest university disciplines, the applied sciences and engineering, and towards essentially, anything *else* which isn't offshore-able. This is typically some health care related discipline, basically another semi-independent professional education program or perhaps trucking and/or running oil drilling equipment.

At the same time, we also have this phenomena of college tuition matching the increases in health insurance premiums, year after year. Where does it stop? At what point do individuals and families basically make the statement, "no more", it's either ivy league undergrad (for the Goldman Sachs/McKinsey recruiters only, since they're global elitist and recruit from their kind) or some part-time online training to satisfy the HR requirement to have some college certificate to be seen in an office or some health care certification to be seen at a hospital. When will this seismic shift occur?

[Crispo]

Boston ITer,

Always enjoy your posts. I work in higher ed in Mass. - the individual consumer of higher ed is not in the driver's seat. You either get the credential or become a loser (a few entrepreneurial types to the contrary.)

The answer is the power of the educational institutional elites. They are calling the shots. Until they adopt new models and delivery systems, not much is going to change. As a faculty member, I can affect my own class, but most administrators are not capable or motivated to make the change. It's got to come from the political elites - if politicians don't make the changes, no one will.

[Boston ITer]

[Guest]

[melonrightcoast]

My two cents is that people are going to start rethinking college costs for their children. Personally, I'd only pay top dollar for a private university if it were an elite school that will put a person toward the top of the resume pile. I'm speaking from my own experience as I have a degree from a random state school and my husband has a degree from MIT.

If the elite school does not work out, then decent state schools or Canadian and European schools would be the next schools I'd consider paying for. Almost all of my cousins in my mother's family went to little known private Catholic universities, and I can't help but think how big a waste of money that is.
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melonrightcoast ... are you?

[Boston ITer]

[Boston ITer]

[Guest]

[balor123]

Having gone to a top university, I don't think it was worth it, at least for engineering. UT Austin would have taught me just as well for far less money (actually, at the time it was ranked higher). All engineers make roughly the same amount of money. Going to Cornell opened doors but I didn't go through them and very few people do.

[GenXer]

Top doesn't buy it anymore. Tech and defense companies are very happy to grab UMass. Amherst grads, and while they don't mind an MIT grad, the breadth of demand is so staggering that there is plenty of room for everybody. For an ambitious person it doesn't really matter where their degree is from. It is true that if you went to an MIT and got an MBA you may have certain opportunities, but that is not true when you are just starting out. The old boy's network does work, but this never stopped somebody with enough ambition - on the contrary, it is the dropouts that eat all the cake because they are just TOO HUNGRY.

As far as the price of top schools - it is safe for me to say that this will put most people on SS rolls and unable to fund their own retirement. What a huge waste - $200k x number of kids. For our kids it will be public U for 2 years and then a scholarship/loans to a school towards a real degree (not 'psychology'). It will also be working after high school to earn the first couple of years at the public U. I think most kids are too sheltered and can't really take care of themselves unless somebody gives them a job. Kids have to learn to be able to do anything - and while getting a concentration does not hurt, from experience, being able to adapt to different job requirements is more important.

[admin]

Might this trade off between a top tier school and tolerable debt levels be a false dichotomy for many people? Financial aid should be considered before ruling out any school on price, and the top tier schools are the ones with the deepest pockets who are in the position to offer the best financial aid. I am thinking specifically of MIT where tuition was $0 (yes, free) in 2008-2009 for families earning less than $75K and where home equity was not considered when determining financial aid for families earning less than $100K. I am not sure how the financial aid compares at similar schools, so perhaps MIT is anomalous, but the point is that this trade off between price and school branding doesn't always exist.

- admin

[john p]

You also have to consider the nature of the school too as it makes a big difference.

You can't fake engineering very easily so either you get it or you don't and a place like MIT absolutely needs the top talent so tuition isn't such a barrier to entry.

Harvard is another story. To get into Harvard, many international students need strong contacts because Harvard wants to make sure that they can get their graduates at top levels all across the globe. As we see, many of the top elite bankers and financial CEO's from the Ivy's weren't as strong as advertised. Given that society gives so much credibility to the Ivy's and many of their followers haven't performed exceptionaly well i.e. Bush (Both Harvard and Yale grad) you have to wonder if the Ivy League Bubble has burst as well?

MIT invested in fundamentals so I think their reputation is on more solid footing.

[JCK]

I agree that top school vs. debt level is a false dichotomy.

What about places like Suffolk University, that charge as much as Harvard, but don't have the reputation? Or even BU, for that matter?

The real fallout isn't going to occur with the Harvards or Columbias of the world. Even if some think the shine is off an Ivy League degree, what does that mean for the lower tier schools that charge just as much?

I think you can argue that going to Harvard is worth something over a UMass-Amherst degree. What's the compelling case for going to BU or Suffolk over UMass?

[john p]

I think you're right, this tier will feel it for sure, most likely before the likes of the Ivies.

Let's break it down though, when does this whole echo-boom subside? The stock market bubble fattened many parents savings and the ensuing real estate bubble provided equity to draw from. I wonder where the dinero is going to come from now?

[Boston ITer]