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Mass. Senate approves sales-tax increase
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Guest






PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 6:41 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

p.s. more data: I work at a firm with well paid and well educated people from the UK as well as European and Asian countries (I'm the only one from the US). None of them have any desire to immigrate to the US. Even if they did, the visa problems would put them off. None of them would really make much more money in the US and they could start a business here just as easily. In fact in some ways it might be easier here because your chance of dealing with frivolous lawsuits is lower.
I think this is kind of a scary statistics because I'm not sure it would have been the case 10-20 years ago.
They don't have much against the US, they are generally positive, but they just wouldn't bother to move because there's not much they'd get out of it. This may be influenced by the sector I'm in, but again, it's data. And I would say the same picture for friends I have at other firms.
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balor123



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 1204

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 7:05 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boston ITer wrote:
My whole surprise about MA and it's whole Taxachusetts attitude is that companies are still here. Really, it's becoming more and more a stagnant corporate culture. Between 2002 and today, brand new technology highways/research triangle parks should have evolved between Nashua, Portmouth, and Laconia NH where in effect, everyone with the mojo to work would be there and perhaps, visit metro Boston on weekends for "the culture".


That's just the impression we get because of the field that we work in. Someone in finance or retail, which draws on income of others like those in finance, probably sees history a bit different. Also, Boston has had a lot of internet startups and companies. IC design is practically dead or appears dead due to the remaining glut of workers, as appears to be my related field. Most of that work is done in CA and TX now.

Boston ITer wrote:

In a sense, that's what's always had me puzzled. There's a sense of nothing changes in MA where things always want to appear to be the same but if you really look around, Boston isn't a sort of a unique city anymore, it's flooded with national chains (Best Buy, Target, Macy), loss of local major *scene* identity (see Filene's/Jordan Marsh closings), and really, one can find 'Scrod/Cod & Chips' anywhere w/o needing to visit a local Irish (i.e. Doyle's) or Anglo-Yankee (i.e. Durgin Park) hangout. (Oh, I forgot to mention... we're all Yankees in this town, sorry to Sox fans who don't know that & think it's only a NY team). The local culture is that, for those who'd grown up in the area and want to hang out with old friends and neighbors.


I don't think they've displaced too much but in that sense we still lag the rest of the country. We do have Best Buys and Targets but you have to drive 20 - 30min to get to one, circle for a parking spot, and then wait in line for 20min on a weekend. None of the cities want these businesses because of the problems they bring, even though if every city built them these problems wouldn't exist (people won't drive to Framingham's Target when they can go to the Waltham Target instead). I think that the small business restaurants are doing just fine though.
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Boston ITer
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 7:08 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I work at a firm with well paid and well educated people from the UK as well as European and Asian countries (I'm the only one from the US). None of them have any desire to immigrate to the US.


Well, you have to look at US immigration in terms of waves. The famous one, from the 1890s to 1920s, is what gave the US the kinda melting pot identity where in essence, the cords with western Europe, in particular the British Isles, were neutralized in terms of a newer continent, with a newer blend of ethnicities. From then on, various economic cycles had its affects on whether or not people would come here. For instance, there was a sharp drop of in the 1930s with the depression and then sporadic waves from there forth. And now, with a sort of globalized workforce, I'd imagine that all kinds of work can occur anywhere w/o needing to be in one specific place.
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Boston ITer
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 7:18 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Someone in finance or retail, which draws on income of others like those in finance, probably sees history a bit different.


Well finance & retail would include Fidelity, State St, MFS, Reebok, Gillette, TJMx, and Putnam, many of whom are leaving the state or significantly shrinking capacity. I have friends, who used to work in the aforementioned and many of them are in NY/Tri-state, south, or Chicago-midwest areas today. This really hasn't been a great decade for corporate life in MA unless one's a part of the healthcare machinery. And yes, for tech, there are the niche player a/o boutiques like Akamai, Groove, and others but like biotech, they're too specialized for a general white collar workforce. True, either you or I could probably step in and get up to speed on any task, within a few months but we all know that HR plus hiring managers don't believe in hiring lateral players, only ones with exact experience.
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balor123



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 1204

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 10:35 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boston ITer wrote:

Well finance & retail would include Fidelity, State St, MFS, Reebok, Gillette, TJMx, and Putnam, many of whom are leaving the state or significantly shrinking capacity.


I think that's been true lately but not from 2002 - 2006. I'm not sure Putnam is on that list as I have a relative who works there. Not sure what kind of deal he got exactly but I get the impression not a huge haircut and in general companies don't hire expensive players in sites they are trying to shrink. I'll agree with you that the trend now is for companies to at least not grow their MA operations.

Boston ITer wrote:

I have friends, who used to work in the aforementioned and many of them are in NY/Tri-state, south, or Chicago-midwest areas today. This really hasn't been a great decade for corporate life in MA unless one's a part of the healthcare machinery. And yes, for tech, there are the niche player a/o boutiques like Akamai, Groove, and others but like biotech, they're too specialized for a general white collar workforce. True, either you or I could probably step in and get up to speed on any task, within a few months but we all know that HR plus hiring managers don't believe in hiring lateral players, only ones with exact experience.


What keeps me in Boston for the moment is that Boston has critical mass that many other areas lack. However, the job market is ultra-competitive, in part because of the glut of workers that I mentioned earlier but also because of the continuous supply of students. If they want someone without experience, then they hire a local recent grad. If they want someone with experience, then they won't accept a lateral move. As long as the growth in the region outstripped the supply of students, as it had been for several decades, this wasn't a problem but clearly it's become an issue and I don't see it changing in the near future. This is a problem for me because I can't decide what type of skillset I should be developing.
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GenXer



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:04 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
GenXer, I really respect your posts and most of all, your desire for empirical data, so I'm curious why here you are so unwilling to look at data? These are rankings produced by conservative or libertarian groups (Cato, Heritage

Quote:

World Rank
1 Hong Kong 90.0 +0.3
2 Singapore 87.1 -0.2
3 Australia 82.6 +0.4
4 Ireland 82.2 -0.3
5 New Zealand 82.0 +1.2
6 United States 80.7 -0.3


Quote:
This was before Obama even got in office.


This doesn't change the fact that Obama is a Socialist. What's the argument here?

Ok, as far as that list, it is laughable. Hong Kong is China, and even before it was authoritarian. Singapore? Try bringing some pot and see what happens when you get arrested. Australia banned all gun possession and saw its crime rate skyrocket. Ireland? Gosh, this is not funny anymore - its a poor country with a very bleak future. New Zealand? Yes, you can afford to be 'free' when your population is 4.7 million and all white european descendants (plus some maori for 'diversity'). But you watch what happens when all of a sudden they are overrun with illegal aliens, like Australia is. These countries do not control their own destinies the way USA does. I'm sorry but there is no comparison here at all, and by the way, I judge ideas on their merits, not on the fact that somebody else mentioned it.


As far as UK and health care, all you have to do is read about what happens with their waiting lists and shoddy care (read up on 'quotas' for dentists for example). Crime in UK is off the charts, and the police is officially hiding statistics from the population (you can find that too). We don't live in 'official' world which is described by a dozen parameters. A country has an infinite number of parameters, but there are several which outweigh EVERYTHING else. We are definitely more free than the above-mentioned countries, period. I'm using my criteria - all I have to do is list the Bill of Rights as my reasons. There is no need to do any more 'studies' or 'research' than that. It is when the government decides that they know better than the Founding Fathers that we start losing our rights. Rights are there, but alas, in the hands of this government, they are being taken away, just as they have been taken away by most of our governments in the past.
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Boston ITer
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 1:17 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
GenXer: Australia banned all gun possession and saw its crime rate skyrocket. Ireland? Gosh, this is not funny anymore - its a poor country with a very bleak future. New Zealand? Yes, you can afford to be 'free' when your population is 4.7 million and all white european descendants (plus some maori for 'diversity').


Well that was kinda brutal. Look, it's obvious that the US tried being a melting pot, and subsequently, a great nation as a result of which, a lot earlier than most other nations but it doesn't mean that Australia/NZ can't have a try at it. Yes, NZ is now dealing with assimilation issues as they were never equipped to deal with rich east Asians, unlike the US (esp states like Hawaii and California). Also, wasn't Boston an ex-pat zone for Ireland? All and all, a lot of places are learning their way. That OZ handgun ban was a result of their own Columbine/Texas Tower incident in Tasmania but once again, they forgot that the criminals have an underground network to acquire their firearms. In the US, very few believe that the police can provide unlimited protection for their populace and hence, the 2nd Amendment persists despite all the Michael Moore films.
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GenXer



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 11:34 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boston ITer: I'm tired of being PC. I call a spade a spade. We have 2nd amendment, as you mentioned. I think this is what protects us, not the government. It is silly comparing us to the rest of the world. We are exceptional, because we have the framework to make immigration work as well as to solve many social issues. The problem is that the government is trying to go marxist on us simply because 50% of the population want to live off of the other 50%. This was tried before, and it doesn't work.
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nickbp



Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 12:23 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

GenXer wrote:
The problem is that the government is trying to go marxist on us simply because 50% of the population want to live off of the other 50%. This was tried before, and it doesn't work.

Same thing again

Actually, if we were following historical rates, the top tax bracket would be in the territory of 50%-90%, rather than the current 35%. And we've also gone way off from our historical distribution of wealth since 2001 or so. That's the American Way.
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GenXer



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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 1:20 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

So are you saying its a good thing? Revolutions and world wars are also historical, so is starvation and plague. What's your point?
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john p



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1820

PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 1:21 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw this program where an analyst summed up Obama's "fairness" policy in this one chart, the income distribution and more recent concentration of wealth.

Obama, like those who build cars in Detroit are using the wrong sets of numbers.

It is now a GLOBAL economy. There are three components to this reality, first, labor competes globally for manufacturing jobs, second, wealth is drained when a nation becomes a consumer society, and third, that ownership rich can invest in growing companies OVERSEAS. If we don't make stuff, the wealthy in our country will invest in the companies that are growing which in many cases are in the emerging markets in the emerging nations.

If someone has 3rd world skills they are competing with someone in a 3rd world nation. The people with 3rd world skills ought to be more thankful that their quality of life is substantially better living in this country because of the wealthy that surround them and buoy their quality of life.

Take Lynn or Brockton, they used to make shoes right? Well have you recently bought a pair of shoes made from Lynn, or how about a watch from Waltham?

Before you start to feel bad for the working class here in this nation, remember this, most poorer people spend their money on products made overseas so they are just as guilty of draining the wealth away from other working class citizens.

Obama and the autoworkers were benchmarking their salaries with the Jones instead of the Wongs.
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balor123



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 2:35 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's why the Texas governor said that they are competing with China and India, not MA and CA. I don't know why most of this country is taking so long to realize this.

There is one problem that this country needs to address though. As companies have become bigger a larger and larger portion of the compensation is being given to upper management, at the expense of lower workers and even shareholders. It is hard to build efficient companies that can compete globally in this environment.
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nickbp



Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:21 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

GenXer wrote:
What's your point?

Point: Your alarmist claims of "expensive top tax bracket = marxism" are ignoring that our top tax brackets are currently at historic lows.
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GenXer



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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:32 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does it matter what 'historic' is? When you take from Peter to pay Paul, this is socialism. It is wrong, and it is not the American way. 'Progressive' tax rate is also wrong, and having a huge government which has too much control is wrong. Nowhere in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights does it say that I have to support illegal aliens and those who do not want to work, as well as to provide Cadillacs for welfare recipients and in-state tuition for illegal aliens. Nowhere does it say that the wealth we earn has to be spread around. We've always been a generous country with a very high upward mobility potential because of the opportunities available here, but taking my money to perpetuate a ponzi schemes such as social security, and to raise our taxes instead of laying off government workers is socialism, an it is wrong, regardless of what is the 'norm' historically. Having bad policy previously does not justify what is currently hapening. The reason we are doing well is precisely because lower taxes and less government means better economy for the rest of the country.
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john p



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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:07 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not happy that wealth is concentrating at the top either.

An example of how to build a middle class without stealing from the rich is the concept and introdcution of LLC's and I think S-Corps. The LLC (Limited Liability Company) business structure was great for small businesses. In 1996 they had a big push on these and many start-up models used them.

Also, cutting taxes on small businesses would give the big goliath companies more competition and would loosen their grip on industries.

I am all for building a middle class from the ground up, but you first need to have them have industrious values to create the motivation, and then create a structure for them to grow and be protected i.e. an LLC and then don't strangle them with regulation or taxes.

The biggest lie that corporations tell to Democrats is that all regulation is good. Certain regulation is good but overkill can just filter out smaller competition and keeps the power in the big companies. Democrats try really hard to help the poor but the end up just smothering them. Take the mortgage industry, the little companies are being dried up with all this centralization and government control.
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