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Growing seller realism, but not here in Massachusetts

 
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news



Joined: 14 Jul 2007
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Location: Greater Boston

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 1:47 pm GMT    Post subject: Growing seller realism, but not here in Massachusetts Reply with quote

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Description: Growing seller realism, but not here in Massachusetts
URL: http://www.boston.com/realestate/news/blogs/renow/2009/05/growing_seller.html
Info/Broken?: http://www.bostonbubble.com/link_info.php?id=2362

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balor123



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 1204

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 4:50 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going through some old posts on this blog and came across this one. Comments 10 and 11 seems to be on target.

10.

It's all about zoning, and keeping families out. Many towns require large lots, which drives up the price of existing homes, and makes building anything very expensive. Multi-families tend to be 1-and 2-bedroom "luxury" units or 55+ housing. Many other towns have banned multi-family housing, which means McMansions are going to stay McMansions.

Families are leaving the state in droves because they aren't welcome. In 20 years, Massachusetts will consist of rich people, poor people, elderly people, and students.
Posted by Liz May 8, 09 07:07 PM

11.

in my town, the housing stock is over 90% single family homes, only two condo (very small older) developments, and senior luxury condos coming in. no rentals (except by people who can't sell and need out). there is a whole demographic missing from my town -- anyone who has left home and is single and between the ages of 18 and 30. no plans to build housing that would accommodate all walks of life -- divorced parents, young professionals, families starting out who plan to buy a house in town in a few years.

i think the town is making a mistake with this, but most of the folks living here really do seem to like it this way. we desperately need more starter homes and condos without age restrictions.
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JCK



Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 559

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 5:08 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

balor123 wrote:
Going through some old posts on this blog and came across this one. Comments 10 and 11 seems to be on target.

10.

It's all about zoning, and keeping families out. Many towns require large lots, which drives up the price of existing homes, and makes building anything very expensive. Multi-families tend to be 1-and 2-bedroom "luxury" units or 55+ housing. Many other towns have banned multi-family housing, which means McMansions are going to stay McMansions.

Families are leaving the state in droves because they aren't welcome. In 20 years, Massachusetts will consist of rich people, poor people, elderly people, and students.
Posted by Liz May 8, 09 07:07 PM

11.

in my town, the housing stock is over 90% single family homes, only two condo (very small older) developments, and senior luxury condos coming in. no rentals (except by people who can't sell and need out). there is a whole demographic missing from my town -- anyone who has left home and is single and between the ages of 18 and 30. no plans to build housing that would accommodate all walks of life -- divorced parents, young professionals, families starting out who plan to buy a house in town in a few years.

i think the town is making a mistake with this, but most of the folks living here really do seem to like it this way. we desperately need more starter homes and condos without age restrictions.


Also need some 3BR units. Even in some of these luxury condos, they often have no 3BR units. Tons of 2 BRs, almost no 3 BRs, available at any size.

A lot of the problem goes back to local funding for schools. Families pay the same taxes as non-families, but families drive up school costs. So there's an incentive to attract those without children to one's town.
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renterstill
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 6:18 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I second the above. Even if a family wants to rent in the municipality that would be their future target town for buying and start embedding themselves in the community (pre-school, kindergarten, after school, volunteering, past-time) there is lack of 3bdr units.
Whatever low inventory of 3bdr places there is on the renter's market, it is old, dated, and overpriced with low security that a lease will be extended past the first year (our situation).
Granted, demographics in the immune tows are changing somewhat, but it is a slow process and many young families, young professionals are still priced out. Senior citizens tend to stay in their homes till they can, not downsizing, because they have nowhere to go if they want to stay in the same town (case of several homes on my street).
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WestCoastXPlant
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:49 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bet the lack of 3 bedroom units is also a matter of market demand. How many of you were not considered "crazy" for not buying? I've certainly seen some strange looks when I've told people we're renting, esp. post kids. With credit being so cheap pretty much everyone* could get into the market before or soon after they started a family, esp with a little help from mom and dad. I suspect things will be achanging, both because more sellers will be waiting for better days and because there will be more demand from families for rentals.

*By everyone I mean folks who would be granted a loan, not folks who could really afford the price.
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JCK



Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 559

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:03 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think some of it's a longer term problem, going back to the school issue, as well as developer/profitability issues.

My observation is that 3 BR condos are much, much less common than 2 BR condos. So it's not simply a rent/buy issue.

It's probably more profitable to build two 1 BRs, or one 1 BR and one 2 BR, than a 3 BR, for rental or purchase.

Then factor in the "let's keep the families out, to prevent schools from becoming overly crowded" factor, and you can imagine that towns are much more willing to approve projects w/o 3 BR units.

So there may be multiple factors at work, some of which are independent of the housing bubble.
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john p



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1820

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:52 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the incongruency you guys are talking about is essentially that of developers and city officials embracing the notion of families living in these new developments, particularly a highrise.

I would check the website of the development to see if their renderings show any kids.

I don't see school buses showing up to places like the Intercontinental.

I think there is a level of decorum that goes along with these highrises and kids tend not to go with that. There was this show called "Family Affair" that had two kids living in a highrise and I think they were called "Buffy and Jody". I used to kid my sister and say that she was going to be so overbearing with her kids and they would end up like Buffy and Jody. To my surprise, her kids had her blood and they gave it right back, God bless them.

Here is Buffy and Jody and the doll Mrs. Beasley, in my view, perfect city kids.

http://www.geocities.com/wenngirl_99/familyaffair/fmr01.jpg
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balor123



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:22 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

JCK wrote:

Also need some 3BR units. Even in some of these luxury condos, they often have no 3BR units. Tons of 2 BRs, almost no 3 BRs, available at any size.


Families cost more in services I guess? They also put pressure on SF houses.

JCK wrote:

A lot of the problem goes back to local funding for schools. Families pay the same taxes as non-families, but families drive up school costs. So there's an incentive to attract those without children to one's town.


And they wonder why residents won't vote for higher taxes to cover school costs!
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balor123



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 1204

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:26 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw Deval Patrick speak at the Tufts graduation this weekend. I wonder if he has an email address where we can send him a link to this forum. Then again, maybe politicians don't care what we think. Or, more accurately, they do but are quite happy with the things the way they are (FTHB struggling so that sellers keep high prices).
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JCK



Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 559

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 12:33 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

balor123 wrote:

Families cost more in services I guess? They also put pressure on SF houses.

!


My guess is that having more, smaller units are more profitable to rent or sell vs. having larger, fewer units.
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