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Boston ITer
Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Posts: 269
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 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:53 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Today, if you talk about any form of morality people treat you like you are some Jerry Fallwell hypocritical freak. Think about how many people put down religion and take for granted the benefits it provides a society? It is cool to make fun of Religion don't you think? It isn't about being high and mighty and self righteous, it is about having a moral standard whereby we can conduct business and live in a respectful socity. |
John, the founder of Vermont, Ethan Allen, was a Deist, himself, along with others like Franklin, Paine, and Jefferson from the Revolutionary times. Were these men like Angelo Mozillo or Ken Lay? I'll bet you that both Mozillo and Lay believe that by going to some confessionals, that they'll be pardoned of all sin (or karma). Sorry, but that's how some so-called religious people behave, esp the ones on death row. I personally believe that they'll face misfortune in future lives, what comes around goes around. Sorry, no short cuts for anyone.
Thus, I think your *make fun of religion* is a cop out of the notion that you don't like the fact that not everyone (who's BTW is not a scam artist nor trying to promote flipping condos for a living) buys into your concepts of religious indoctrinations. |
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john p
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1820
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:57 pm GMT Post subject: |
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I'm not saying that atheists are unmoral hethans who aren't "going to heaven". I'm just saying that we are in an anti-Religious atmosphere where people are prone to blame all our Wars on Religion etc.
Religions are important to society because they are a structure where morals are taught. I do think that without formal religion the overall moral fabric would suffer. Think about what would happen if we didn't have formalized education and everyone was self taught or home schooled. Now, I'm not making the argument that the those that home school are losers like atheists are hethans or something, I'm just saying that our society values education and has a formalized system, if we valued morals we might be less prone to bash Religion at every turn.
Think of it this way, if someone makes a bad rational decision and makes a mistake, say makes an arithmetic error in their tax forms, that is one form of error based on a poor education in math. Now what if we have a society where everyone knows how to fill out the forms and do the math but has a moral weakness, not an intellectual weakeness, and they strategically fill in the wrong information or play Mickey the Dunce afterwards i.e. Bill Clinton saying "It depends on what your definition of "Is" is." Now, I think that people look at religious morality and relate it to witch hunts because the Far Right have used morality as a battering ram. Although this is distatesful, so don't elites use their pedigree as a battering ram or worse yet, a reason to claim that they are a "leader" and not a "manager" so they can just sit on their asses and waste the potency of the roles they just sit in like laggards.
We need to get out of our ruts, or impressions that politics have put us in and step back and evaluate why we react to things the way we do and to be careful that these knee jerk reactions aren't making us throw out the baby with the bathwater.
This whole melt down was based on those that weren't sophisticated enough to protect themselves, and to these we need to provide street smarts and skills. It was also caused by those that were predators who knew better but were weak morally and took advantage of the weak. To these we need to make face justice. Rebuilding requires both education and a strengthening of our moral fabric. I honestly don't give a shit what religion people join or even if they want to be atheists, I just want a society where people somewhat care about eachother and follow a basic moral code about telling the truth, not beating your wife, being a bigot, etc.
I am tired of being preached to by academics. The last three Presidents are Harvard and Yale boys and they've signed many innocent people's death warrants; should we shut those institutions down? Obama wasn't the statesman that he sold himself as. Even from an academic standpoint, where is Harvard when the casino industry is putting out their bogus casino data? Even from an academic and rational basis, why didn't they evaluate this bogus information and throw the penalty flag?
Harvard will correct you for saying merry christmas but won't stand up for the poor with the casino bogus data? They don't give a shit about the poor. Harvard didn't say shit about the housing bubble. Robert Shiller was the only Ivy that warned about the bubble that I was aware of. I'm tired of getting preached to by these elite losers who have run Wall Street, run Government, etc. |
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Boston ITer
Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Posts: 269
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:54 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I just want a society where people somewhat care about each other and follow a basic moral code about telling the truth, not beating your wife, being a bigot, etc. |
Unfortunately John, what's happening is that our society is becoming bifurcated & when that happens to a formerly middle class centric society, a lot of adjustments need to be made.
If you look at Brazil, it's a predominately Catholic nation. Yet, despite the immense interest in religion and even native or imported spiritual practices, the political and economic systems there are hopelessly corrupt. Though Brazil is more a melting pot of races than the USA, in terms of economics, it's a dismal place for those who're not in the pre-existing middle class. And the police open fire on kids in the Favelas w/o the press going ballistic like around here.
What I'm getting at is that even in a religious leaning society, class and group distinctions will persist. Where America had once succeeded was when the continuity of the middle class and middle class employment was an imperative to the well-being of the state. Now, this is disappearing & sure, selling the idea of a morally upright society is good for the kids but let's face it, when an 18 to 24 year old can't find a job, what's the real barrier from him joining a gang, as in "The Warriors"? Or when folks like Mozillo know that their pastors will turn a blind eye & offer repentance regardless, why does he need to be concerned about the greater society from his Fannie/Freddie shenanigans? So in this case, what an observant person sees is that it's not the meek, but the well off who inherit the earth & that religion is used as an opiate to keep a bulk of the lower classes from rising up against their feudal masters. |
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mpr
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:40 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| Boston ITer wrote: | | So in this case, what an observant person sees is that it's not the meek, but the well off who inherit the earth & that religion is used as an opiate to keep a bulk of the lower classes from rising up against their feudal masters. |
True. Except that in the US I wouldn't blame this just on religion in the strict
sense. The kind of doctrine espoused by the Tea Party is not exclusively
religiously based, but the whole thing has a rather religious flavor -
a disregard for factual reality in favor of certain dogmas "supported"
by "religious" texts (in this case their interpretation of the US constitution),
and a disregard for the practical implications for these positions for most people.
The effect may well be exactly the one you allude to, with the US becoming
a society governed by a kind of capitalist feudalism.
John, your desire for a society where people treat each other decently
is all find and good, but if you look at history you'll find that the
quality of people's lives is usually inversely correlated with the role
religion plays in society. Yes, its hard to separate cause and effect here
but religions has been an obvious cause of plenty of human misery.
And I would include state religions like Communism and Facism, and
perhaps the budding cult of "Teaism", in this. |
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Boston ITer
Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Posts: 269
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:12 am GMT Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The kind of doctrine espoused by the Tea Party is not exclusively
religiously based, but the whole thing has a rather religious flavor -
a disregard for factual reality in favor of certain dogmas "supported"
by "religious" texts (in this case their interpretation of the US constitution),
and a disregard for the practical implications for these positions for most people. |
Thanks mpr, you've elaborated on the issue I was trying to discern... in weaning doctrinal behavior patterns from Thomas Paine-like commonsense.
In this case, the so-called reactionary response, is a type of *ism in itself. And thus, one comes back to where one started ... meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
| Quote: | | The effect may well be exactly the one you allude to, with the US becoming a society governed by a kind of capitalist feudalism. |
Yes, this is my general conclusion.
| Quote: | | Yes, its hard to separate cause and effect here but religions has been an obvious cause of plenty of human misery. |
The way I see it, religions have a manner of organizing sets of peoples. And that's a form of concentrating power in lines with group think & mind control. It's sad enough that we're mainly serfs to our corporate overlords but to also lose our ability to think/perceive/meditate for ourselves would be an even greater peril for our times. |
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john p
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1820
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:32 am GMT Post subject: |
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I see it more as a Starbucks versus Dunkin Donuts sort of thing.
Yuppies are just as dumb and blind and ignore facts and they just march along to whatever the New York Times and the Boston Globe tell them without much critical thinking. They are just as easily misled.
http://blogs.wickedlocal.com/holmesandco/2010/10/29/deval-patrick-and-ameriquest-no-this-was-not-vetted-last-time-around/
from above:
| Quote: | The real issue here – or what would be the real issue, were the book released with some simmer time prior to election day – is this: Patrick claimed in 2006 that he joined Ameriquest’s board to help reform the company, and told the Globe that ” the company is using the [charges of predatory lending] as an opportunity to raise the bar for the entire industry.”
To say things didn’t quite work out that way would be an epic understatement. As it turned out, Ameriquest sold over $45 billion in sub-prime loans to Lehman Brothers and other Wall Street firms, contributing directly to Lehman’s collapse and, shortly thereafter, the housing bubble explosion that took down the economy.
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To not think that Deval Patrick wasn't cashing in on a predatory lender and profitting on others misfortune is insane. If Deval Patrick cared about poor people he wouldn't have taken hundreds of thousands of dollars from one of the worst predatory lenders that targetted the poor and minorities, and also sold $45 Billions of subprime paper that would eventually torpedo Lehmans, one of the primary dominoes to fall.
Guys, this is a Real Estate Bubble blog, we're supposed to be on top of this stuff.
To deny this you're either: dumb (like the Tea Party?), or corrupt in standing to gain from people's stupidity or the lack of justice served.
Because Patrick is from Harvard and he is a Democrat the Globe will undoubtedly support him and not really vet the issue, and the Left who turn a blind eye are just as dumb lemmings who march and jump when they're told to; sorry, you're not more sophisticated than the Tea Parrty, you just have a better command of the English language.
Now's Obama's background:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/item_O0yW4bz2JFayfEOrFku81I;jsessionid=57F61CC86C8EF98C61B6501EC70033E8
from above:
| Quote: | n June 2005, Obama bought a 98-year-old Kenwood mansion from a University of Chicago doctor for $1.65 million, using a $1.69 million advance he received from publishers Crown for his book, "The Audacity of Hope." The same day Rezko's wife Rita paid the doctor $625,000 for the empty lot adjoining Obama's property.
Even though at the time Rezko was under federal investigation for influence-peddling in Illinois Governor Blagojevich's administration, Obama did business with him, buying for $104,500 a 10-foot wide strip of Rita Rezko's lot, ostensibly to provide space for a fence. The deal left Mrs. Rezko's lot too small to build upon, thereby lifting the value of Obama's home. |
The key here is "The deal left Mrs. Rezko's lot too small to build upon, thereby lifting the value of Obama's home.".
Now all of us who follow real estate very, very closely know that a developer like a Tony Rezko wouldn't be paying asking price for anything, especially if Obama was getting a 15% discount during the peak of the Bubble (we're talking June of 2005). Why does Obama get such a great deal during the peak of the Bubble and a street smart developer have to pay asking price? The part than anyone, anyone who is a regular poster on this site just can't say with any intellectual honesty, is that it would be reasonable that Rezko would sell a portion of his lot rendering his remaining land too small to build upon. A developer buys property to develop; selling a tiny piece to render the remaining investment undevelopable is not rational and quite simply he would not have been induced to do so unless it was graft for influence.
So lets flush religon down the toilet so that we can all be rational and not foolish like the tea party. You guys explain Patrick and Obama and Rezko truthfully and rationally and then you can talk about making fun of the Tea Party, otherwise, you're just as intellectually dishonest.
By the way, what gave Obama the money to buy that mansion was his book entitled "The Audacity of Hope".
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1986116/posts
from above:
| Quote: |
Wright’s sermon, “Audacity to Hope” is based on the story of a troubled woman named Hannah who sits atop of a hateful world in tattered clothes and has a bruised heart. Wright says Hannah lives in a quiet Hell, like his many followers who suffer privately, but portrays an image of “sitting on top of the world.”
But because Hannah had the “audacity to hope” she is able to look towards heaven for relief. Obama slightly modified the title of Wright’s sermon for his book “Audacity of Hope” which became a New York Times bestseller.
"Here is the transcribed version of Wright’s “Audacity to Hope” ......
"The vertical dimension balanced out what was going on the horizontal dimension. And that is what the audacity to hope will do for you. The apostle Paul said the same thing. Paul said you have troubles? Glory in your troubles. We glory in tribulation. That’s the horizontal dimension. We glory in tribulation because, he says, tribulation works patience and patience works experience and experience works hope. That’s the vertical dimension. And hope makes us not shame. The vertical dimension balances out what is going on in the horizontal dimension. And that is the real story here in Samuel the first chapter. Not the condition of Hannah’s body, but the condition of Hannah’s soul. Her vertical dimension.
She had the audacity to keep on hoping and to keep on praying and to keep on praying when there was no visible sign on the horizontal level that what she was praying for, hoping for, waiting for would ever be answered in the affirmative. That what she wanted most out of life had been denied to her. Think about that. Yet in spite of it, she kept on hoping. The gloating of Peninah did not make her bitter, she kept on hoping. When her family made its pilgrimage to the sanctuary she renewed her petition there, pouring out her heart to God. She may have been barren in her womb, that’s the horizontal dimension; she was fertile in however in her spirit, her vertical dimension. She prayed and she prayed and she kept on praying year after year, no answer and she kept on praying. She prayed so fervently in this passage that Eli though she had to be drunk. There as no sign on the horizontal level that for which she was praying for would ever be answered and Paul said something about that, too. No visible sign. Hope, the vertical dimension, he says, hope is what saves us for we are saved by hope, but hope that is seen is not hope. For what a man sees, why does he have hope for it, but if we hope for that which we see not, no visible sign, then do we with patience wait for it, almost an echo of what the prophet Isaiah said: they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. The vertical dimension balances out what is going on in the horizontal direction.
"In your life, there may not be any visible sign of a change in your individual situation whatever your private Hell is. But that’s just a horizontal level. Keep the vertical level intact, like Hannah and you may like the African slaves be able to sing “over my head I hear music in the air, over my head I hear music in the air, over my head I hear music in the air, there must be a God somewhere.”
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So lets look at these men, Obama pretty much uses the Black Church for street credibility and the liberals love it, except all the "religious" stuff. The "Audacity" is that even though this woman in the story has been dealt a shit sandwich, she has faith in God. Now all this flowery mumbo jumbo is the material Obama used for the title of his book which bought his mansion with the help of a slum lord who stole from the poor. What the hell did Obama learn from that sermon? Obama was no different than a Jerry Fallwell for the elite liberals. |
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john p
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1820
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Boston ITer
Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Posts: 269
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:12 am GMT Post subject: |
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John, I think you're getting a sliver of the idea here and that idea is *elite*
Yes, it's about economic bifurcation and the so-called elites are pitting ideologues against one another with the idea that the masses will subscribe to one group think or another. Divide the troops and enforce the ranks.
Realize, as long as there's a group of people, who appear or feel like they're above the law or the golden rule, then it doesn't matter which faction they're a part of.
I'd never support Obama-nation, I knew he was a BS artist since the '04 DNC speech. I was among the few persons who didn't see any merit in it. And no, I wasn't impressed by the fact that he'd attended Harvard Law or Columbia undergrad. |
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mpr
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:55 am GMT Post subject: |
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| john p wrote: | Yuppies are just as dumb and blind and ignore facts and they just march along to whatever the New York Times and the Boston Globe tell them without much critical thinking. They are just as easily misled.
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No John, not really.
I dont know how much water there is in your accusations against Obama
and Patrick, but it really doesn't matter. My problem with the GOP/Tea Party
isn't that its members are not perfect human beings. Its that they
uniformly push policies which are to the benefit of only the top sliver
of US income earners.
So the fact that Obama got (some form of) health care passed is infinitely
more important than any RE peccadillos he might have been involved
in. (Though your case looks pretty thin to me).
By the way are you (in particular as a Catholic) against everyone having access to healthcare ? What about the way it works in MA, dont you like that ?
On the flip side, I dont care if every member of the GOP is completely upright in their personal dealings (although that's obviously highly counterfactual). They are uniformly trying to redistribute wealth upwards
in a society where it is already highly skewed.
The amazing thing is that they are getting half of the rest of the population
to go along with it - well I guess once you think of it as a religious cult it begins to seem more familiar.
BTW John, do you think its a coincidence that of the three men in US
politics for whom you reserve most of your vitriol - Patrick, Obama and Frank - two are black and one is openly gay ? Just asking. |
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Boston ITer
Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Posts: 269
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:44 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| Quote: | They are uniformly trying to redistribute wealth upwards in a society where it is already highly skewed.
The amazing thing is that they are getting half of the rest of the population
to go along with it - well I guess once you think of it as a religious cult it begins to seem more familiar. |
In a sense, this is a game to keep the game the same.
What folks don't realize is that tax cuts w/o new science/engineering backed industries will not lead us back to the golden era of the 50s & 60s.
And having *prayer* (and such) in school won't stop kids from forming gangs if they can't find meaningful work. Kids know when adults are toying with them.
Thus, despite the coming political successes of the right, very little will trickle down to the working person. One of the side effects is when the financial services industries require more 'leverage' to make money, that the new party will lift various NFA restrictions, once again. Directly or indirectly, we all work for Wall St. Perhaps there's a future there in being a porter or in catering for their shindigs. |
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Boston ITer
Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Posts: 269
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:28 pm GMT Post subject: |
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BTW John, for much of the early 2000s, I was forced to carry the "Liberal" label because I opposed science/engineering work being offshored. And none of these detractors knew about what S&E work was about & thus, saw me as an anti-free market person. FYI, these were pre-MBAs.
Today, since Andy Groves and others have spoke up and with the 10+% unemployment, none of these 'visionaries' have the guts to speak to me anymore. They're trying to hide behind the various management labels, knowing perfectly well that w/o an executive package, even their jobs are vulnerable.
This is part of the reason why I'm not moved by either the Tea Party or the current Pelosi types. They've hidden the causes and are now trying to create effects w/o any sort of real know-how. |
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john p
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1820
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:09 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| Quote: | BTW John, do you think its a coincidence that of the three men in US
politics for whom you reserve most of your vitriol - Patrick, Obama and Frank - two are black and one is openly gay ? Just asking. |
MPR Throws the RACIST CARD!!!!
whoo hoo; when all else fails throw the racist card.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/politics/candidates/articles/2006/10/04/april_patrick_letter/
Read this letter that Deval Patrick sent to a Parole Board asking for the release of a grandmother rapist.
He admits never meeting Ben LeGuer but calls him thoughtful, insightful, eloquent and humane. But that's not all, he calls the jurors bigots. He, like you, threw out the race card. What makes Deval Patrick so bad is that he plays both sides of the issue. He goes after Ameriquest when it suits him and then he turns around and goes on their payroll to make sure that they get a tiny slap on the writst. They wanted a corruptable, well connected token minority to play Judas on his own people. Like those that want to prey on the weak with casinos or the predatory lenders, if you choose to prey on the weak you'll hear my "vitriol."
What is "thin" about this evidence? Read the letter. Do you deny that Patrick didn't take hundreds of thousands from Ameriquest? Go ahead try to deny that. I present a perfectly valid reason why I am against Patrick, you call the evidence thin and then you imply that I am a bigot?
The real question here is why YOU don't have "vitriol" for these men? - Is it because they are Democrats?
Now I am glad you so openly played the race card:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQHRNmPqIAo
Listen to the congressmen and women playing the race card denying that there is a housing bubble and that Franklin Raines did a hell of a job and no regulations are needed.
I've been watching the real estate market pretty closely for years and saw it torpedo our Economy. It is just so funny because for the same reasons why you think that religious people or tea party people don't use their minds and use rationality to form decisions, you too ignore evidence that is clear. These you can't deny, they are not thin my friend, they are actual video footage, it is history that you can not deny or call thin, it is real, it happened and they were totally fucking wrong. If even now, you can't admit it, you are either corrupt or dumber than those you stick your nose down on. Look at the words. I'm not a racist for not liking Patrick, for God's sake he tried to let a granmother rapist out of prison. To me that isn't a thin, flimsy reason. Grandmother rapists, in my view are bad people and even though I was a Democrat at the time, I was able to see through my political affiliation to see right and wrong. It appears that you don't.
And for the record, I believe that gays should be free to marry.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34622
Here's more race card shakedown stuff:
http://www.fitsnews.com/2010/07/13/jesse-jacksons-race-card-misfire/
Here's Barney Frank using the race card:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93LAKT01
MPR, these guys were and are totally wrong. The Housing Bubble Crashed, Fannie and Freddie were exposed as totally corrupt and these guys took money from Fannie and Freddie and they provided political cover using the race card. Dude, it's over, you lost the argument, why on earth are you attempting to argue history? The race card is what prevented people from being rational and helped fuel the irrational exhuberance.
Also, for the record, the words of Jesus Christ move peole. Con men understand this and if they have personal skills and charisma they can use Christ's words as an ends to a means for themselves. Obama's "Audacity of Hope" is bascially a teaching about the Holy Spirit. Candidate Obama was nothing but a teleevangalist for the Liberals. For the same reasons you think the tea party are misled and are delusional and refuse to look at facts, you too do the same thing. At least the facts are behind the Tea Party.
And Deval Patrick and Barack Obama, they played the game, and they became that evil 1% that the money goes to. If Deval Patrick fought Ameriquest and didn't try to let a granmother rapist out of prison, I"d vote for him. |
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mpr
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:05 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| john p wrote: | | Quote: | BTW John, do you think its a coincidence that of the three men in US
politics for whom you reserve most of your vitriol - Patrick, Obama and Frank - two are black and one is openly gay ? Just asking. |
MPR Throws the RACIST CARD!!!!
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Just asking. Sorry if it touches a sore point.
| john p wrote: |
If Deval Patrick fought Ameriquest and didn't try to let a granmother rapist out of prison, I"d vote for him. |
No, as a matter of fact you wouldn't, because the talk radio jockeys you
get your info from would have found something else about him to hate.
See, if your criticism of Patrick's connection with Ameriquest came from
a genuine concern about predatory lending you'd also be in favor of
consumer protections in general and therefore those parts of the recent finreg bill which tried to improve those protections.
Republicans uniformly opposed that bill.
So it isn't that you're not allowed to criticize Patrick or other dems. Its
just that your choice of who to criticize and what for is, given all the alternatives, rather revealing. |
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Boston ITer
Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Posts: 269
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:07 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Fannie and Freddie were exposed as totally corrupt and these guys took money from Fannie and Freddie |
John, you bring up F&F to point out something that everyone knows, that politicians are intrinsically corrupt and are on *the take* by lobbyists. Guess what, it's the same for both parties. Bob Dole retired to a lobbying position for Big Tobacco and I don't even want to get into the Military-Industrial-Energy complex. Yes, a lot of Republicans don't have a race/gender/sexual orientation card to play up so that makes 'em immaculately innocent?
However, why aren't you more angry with Angelo Mozillo? He's the prime architect for the subprime shenanigans and what's amazing is the he'd publicly announced that F&F needed to raise their limits and a few weeks later, they did exactly that to a tune over $700K per loan. That's how Mozillo hid the toxic trash on his books w/o any scrutiny. And during that whole time, he'd sold off half a billion dollars in stock in the most blatant, out-in-the-wide-open insider trading before his company tanked and was merged with BoA. Today, he's slapped with a $47 million fine and no jail time. Great, so that's a 9% penalty for one of the greatest corporate scandals since Enron. |
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john p
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1820
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:48 am GMT Post subject: |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Rezko
Tony Rezko, the guy who helped Obama buy his house gets caught on 16 counts of political corruption.
There's you're "thin" argument. Ha, Ha, Ha.
I'm sorry to make a point at your expense, it is just that this thread to me is about how people can look at clear data and make absolute stupid decisions because they are blinded by whatever.
I have just shown clear evidence that any reasonable person would have concerns with Patrick, Frank, and Obama. Now I don't care if someone says, sure, they have a shady past but they are better than the alternative because of x.y.z. but when they deny the evidence or blind themselves because it doesn't align with what the want to be true, it helps us understand how the Bubble was right in front of our eyes and even the big elite institutions with all their brain trust sat silent. My issue is what compelled them to sit silent. Wasn't the point of sending all these people to college to have a more educated and critical electorate? How's that working out? We have a disfunctional government and an electorate that still has hero worship and refuses to look at factual data.
I love how MPR throws out the race card and then retracts it in a way where he's still trying to stick the knife in. "Sorry that my calling you a racist hits a sore spot." Go fuck yourself. Calling someone a racist is a pretty shitty thing, asshole. You just don't throw that out there because you're losing an argument. Did you go to an Ivy League School and learn how to get away with being an asshole? Your apology is phony and hollow and lacks integrity just like you. Who said I am not in favor of consumer protections? I've been on this site to make sure that people can have someone who cares available when the Real Estate Industry puts out more b.s. propaganda because just about nobody was there when I needed them.
IT'er: I am angry at Mozillo and I hope he goes to jail. Anyone who preys on the poor I am mad at.
MPR, I agree that if the Tea Party won't talk entitlements they were full of crap, but you too are full of crap if you can't admit that what Deval Patrick did with Ameriquest was totally corrupt and shady. And, you should be at arms length with your hero worship of Obama that you can admit that doing business with someone who gets caught on 16 counts of political corruption should raise some serious questions and when News Agencies don't ask those questions, they too are corrupt.
MPR:
Tony Rezko 's 16 counts of political corruption, helps Obama buy his house,
Patrick on the take from Ameriquest after working the other side with the Race Card Shakedown.
Patrick wants to let a grandmother rapist out of prison. A grandmother rapist for fucking God sake.....
and your argument..... deflect to the Tea Party Argument.
Now, do you all see how in the face of obvious data people can blind themselves, and actually be obnoxious and get into peoples faces and call them racists, etc? Case in point sadly.... |
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