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john p



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1820

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:00 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent, excellent, excellent article about the history of Unions and the Democrats:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704320104575015010515688120.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_BelowLEFTSecond

from above

Quote:
In 1962, President John F. Kennedy planted the seeds that grew the modern Democratic Party. That year, JFK signed executive order 10988 allowing the unionization of the federal work force. This changed everything in the American political system. Kennedy's order swung open the door for the inexorable rise of a unionized public work force in many states and cities.


...

Quote:
Feeding the public unions' wage demands starved other government responsibilities. It ruined our ability to have a useful debate about any other public functions.

Massachusetts' spending fell for mental health, the environment, housing and higher education. The physical infrastructure in blue states is literally falling apart. But look at those public wage and pension-related outlays. Ever upward.

Enter the Obama administration, the first one born and raised inside this public bubble, with zero private-sector Cabinet members. Act one: a $787 billion stimulus bill, which they brag mainly saved state and local jobs. Then came the six-month odyssey for Obama's $1 trillion health-care bill, dripping with taxes. Independent voters felt like everything was being sucked into a public-sector vortex.
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Boston ITer



Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:00 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

John, I'm still confused about the whole public vs private sector?

From my career experiences, the private sector isn't exactly a beacon of innovation and good work either. It's also ruled by MBA-ologists with a tether to the same band of financial elites who currently rule DC and Wall St.

The public sector, unfortunately, has too many lazy stalwarts for the handful of good public servants to produce the goods. Still, given the job security, it is possible for one to be a decent cop/detective, DoE researcher, and even an ace rescuer (see Coast Guard).

The very best engineering lead I had the opportunity to work with, a true natural born leader who took care of and supported his best tech underlings is today, a VP of marketing. He sure didn't last in his prior occupation so he had to go the clients directly to make himself valuable long term. That's a complete waste of talent. I think he would have been better off in the public sector working for the Army Research Labs. Now, society will disagree with me because they'll say that a VP title is a sign of success.
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john p



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1820

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:23 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point is that Obama is spending money to help the public sector which is now a big special interest. The Stimulus jobs protected the public sector and it will tax the private sector.

If you are aware of this you can plan your finances accordingly. I think Scott Brown puts the abuses in check a bit or at leasts makes some moderates pause before they think to give special deals to unions...

I can't wait for all this to be ironed out so we can plan our finances....
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balor123



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 1204

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:55 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Boston ITer"
All and all, when a nurse anesthesiologist is nearly guaranteed a +$110K/yr salary, if I were studying "medical" physics, how much effort would it be to drop the MS program (since the kinematics of radiopharmas don't pay the bills), get accepted to a nurse anesthesiology program, and find myself with a job down the road?[/quote]

Check CNN Money's top 10 care careers. They make over $200k! I'm pretty sure the RN at my wife's OB makes $100k just on the weekend courses that she teaches.

There's two real problems for us: (1) companies can hire foreigners to replace roles that Americans don't want because the pay is too low and (2) American scientists and engineers aren't greedy enough. They cut our pay 15% and we basically moan about it but do nothing. Bankers quit left and right over that. I think part of it might be that they make so much in good times that they can afford to quit when mistreated whereas we make just enough to be middle class. That means quitting hurts more. Also, once you stop working your skills start to erode.
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Boston ITer



Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:45 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There's two real problems for us: (1) companies can hire foreigners to replace roles that Americans don't want because the pay is too low and (2) American scientists and engineers aren't greedy enough. They cut our pay 15% and we basically moan about it but do nothing


S&Es have this sort of problem... they think and behave like some all important police detective or FBI investigator, with an ordinary salary, but then forget that their jobs are expendable and thus, don't really see themselves as true wage slaves whereas an FBI agent is a govt employee with a near guaranteed job till retirement, unless one really screws up. All and all, it's best to put up a sign which says, "Don't enter engineering if you're not military or independently wealthy".

What's also amazing is the number of industrial engineers (with tons of experience and know-how) who think that their ~$85K is a great salary esp when pharmacists are surpassing them upon graduation. I never understood this crowd. And a lot of times, a job loss means either instant re-location to Savannah, GA or switching careers in mid-life.
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Renting in Mass



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 381
Location: In a house I bought in December 2011

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:03 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you ever saw the documentary Food Inc. someone like you would need to be restrained (as did I).


I help run a film series, and Food Inc. was the first film we showed this year.

I'll stop on that note of agreement Smile
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Renting in Mass



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 381
Location: In a house I bought in December 2011

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:06 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Excellent, excellent, excellent article about the history of Unions and the Democrats


The WSJ opinion page is wildly partisan. It would be like me trying to convince you of something by pointing to an article on Daily Kos.
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john p



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1820

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:16 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know the Wall Street Journal serves the business market.

Just read the article, you're a big boy or woman (I don't know) and you'll take it with the right grain of salt.

It really gets to the essence of what the Democratic Party is about now.

The Old School Democratic Party is gone. My parents are so loyal to the old party because it was the Democrats who opened the door for the Immigrants decades ago and they "Never forget where they came from".

I love the loyalty, but ask yourself is this the same Party? Martin Luther King was a Republican; things change. I don't see the loyalty to the principles of the Old School Democrats. My parents never had a sense of entitlement. They never thought it was fair to have themselves get some kind of break that other citizens didn't like the current deal for the Unions getting an exemption on the health care tax.

John F. Kennedy said it was better for a society to keep taxes lower. Ted Kennedy worked with other leaders on the other side of the aisle and he pulled our Nation together by harnessing the best. Do you think Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi are in Kennedy's category?

If the Democrats go back to their values and roots, I'll be standing right along side of you.

I mean Rober DeLeo, who follows three Democratic Speakers of the House in MA who resigned in shame due to corruption is promoting having slot machines at racetracks. Slot machines totally and completely prey on the weakest of our brethren. I that Christian? Is that what the Democrats stand for? Deval Patrick wanted resort style casinos because he thought it was a way to transfer the wealth from the rich people having a nice weekend out. The problem was that the local economy would lose $20 for every $1 of salary in a newly created job or tax that would make it back to the State. It was a complete drain and totally toxic for a society. I mean this is the stuff Jack Abramoff did (exploit the Native Americans and the poor in a society). DeLeo doesn't want to give you a steak dinner or a show, he wants to go after the real degenerates who are spending their paychecks at the track. Real class act, great liberal heart in him.
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Renting in Mass



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 381
Location: In a house I bought in December 2011

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:47 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I know the Wall Street Journal serves the business market.


The business pages of the WSJ serve the business market (although that's changing). The OpEd pages serve the interests of the right-wing.

Quote:

Just read the article, you're a big boy or woman (I don't know) and you'll take it with the right grain of salt.


I don't think I will. Every time I've deep-dived into a WSJ editorial, I've found it to be disingenuous and intentionally misleading. How many times do I have to do that before it's in my best interest to disregard that source of information? Once, five times, one hundred times? In a world of limitless information sources, it makes sense to disregard messengers who have proven themselves untrustworthy.
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Renting in Mass



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 381
Location: In a house I bought in December 2011

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:53 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If the Democrats go back to their values and roots, I'll be standing right along side of you.


I doubt it. I think we have very different definitions of the core values of Democrats. If we shared a definition, there's no way that you could believe that the current crop of Republicans are closer to those values than the admittedly flawed Democrats.
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john p



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1820

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:59 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a great article outlining how the Democrats get more money from Wall Street (2 to 1) than Republicans.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/Beware-the-Goldman-Sachs-populist-82293977.html

Populism:

Social Populism:

Those that say that the "elites" try to control things, i.e. the "elite media", "Hollywood elites", "academic elites", etc.

Economic Populism:

Those that say that the rich are bad and take too much from the poor; the us versus them.


After getting his butt kicked via Social Populism, Obama is going to pivot on econmic populism and "start a fight with Wall Street". The trouble is that he was paid off by Wall Street and he has Wall Street insiders running the show and having dozens and dozens of closed door meetings with them.

I'm posting these things to keep you one step ahead of his obvioius moves so when you listen to him you know the facts and can realize that he is a total hypocrite. I mean he has the audacity to say that he wants to pick a fight with Wall Street and that he says that politicians should't be influenced by lobbyists and he ends up hiring Wall Street executives who protect bonuses, the thing he is preaching against in his pulpit and then he says that Tim Geithner and Chris Dodd are the greatest Americans.. Don't you think this is absurd? I mean he must think we're all totally stupid to let him get away with taking so much money from Wall Street and then pretending that he is fighting the good fight against them.

If people ever get the truth they'll look at his relationship with Tony Rezko, a guy who gave him $250k while one winter didn't pay for the heat in one of his slums. The guy was a total piece of garbage, preyed on the poor and was caught on 16 counts of political corruption. This corrupt insider chose Obama because he knew Obama was corruptable and a phony. Shady and corrupt people don't align themselves and donate to Boy Scouts. Obama had this guy help buy his mansion.

Our future will be better when people wise up and we grab the reins, kind of like what we did by electing Scott Brown. Only then will the economy be on a decent footing and we can start talking about the housing market. If the nation is a sinking ship that lets the public sector act like a parasite we're doomed to fail and end up being like a socialistic european country.
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john p



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1820

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:04 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is your definition of the core values of a Democrat?

Are you anti-Catholic? Scott Brown had an amendment put in a Bill that protected Catholics who believe that abortion is murder from being forced to administer an abortion pill. The Boston Globe Writer Yvonne Abraham wrote an article saying that Scott Brown was against helping rape victims. Do you stand by this?

http://www.projo.com/opinion/contributors/content/CT_abe17_01-17-10_H6H45DJ_v15.3f8f783.html
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john p



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1820

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:57 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a great timeline outlining some of the things I was describing before:

http://online.barrons.com/article/SB122246742997580395.html

This is the chain of events and both sides will try to pretend that they didn't contribute to the problems. When you think about the amount of global process we had in these years you have to wonder if we went too fast. There was so much market share with emerging markets and the ability to reach them with the Internet and wireless communication was incredible. People were literally inventing money to capture these marketing opportunities.

The CRA was legislators imposing their morals over society. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac bought subprime securitized debt which essentially let people who can't afford something buy it and put taxpayers on the hook for paying it back. I think that people are entitled their own morals but they shouldn't expect others to have to pay for them. I find that the most liberal people don't contribute liberally to others WITH THEIR OWN MONEY, they are quick to spend other people's money. They have manufactured a belief system called Moral Relativism which justifies poor people to feel entitled to things they don't earn and to even commit crimes. Now we already have a very progressive tax system, that is already created. The top 15% of wage earners pay 85% of the cost of government. "Progressive" means transfer wealth from the rich to the poor. We, again, already have that.

The way the elites are destructive is that they want to feel good inside for helping others, but are so egotistical that they always want to poor to be down. Deluding the poor and making them feel entitled and giving them scapegoats is the one way to guarantee that they will be paralyzed in anger and frustration.

The best thing you can do for the less fortunate is make them MORE FORTUNATE. LET THEM MAKE THEIR OWN FORTUNE.

The best way you can do that isn't deluding them and giving them economic populist scapegoats, but telling them the truth.

Imagine if house prices remained low because if people were priced out of the market never were able to buy, the prices would have eventually had to drop to their affordability reach height. The do-gooder liberals actually hurt those they were pretending to help.
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Boston ITer



Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:10 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The do-gooder liberals actually hurt those they were pretending to help.


The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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mpr



Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 344

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:49 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boston ITer wrote:
Quote:
The do-gooder liberals actually hurt those they were pretending to help.


The road to hell is paved with good intentions.


Yeah, its better to vote for people who say they're going to screw you right up front,
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