bostonbubble.com Forum Index bostonbubble.com
Boston Bubble - Boston Real Estate Analysis
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

SPONSORED LINKS

Advertise on Boston Bubble
Buyer brokers and motivated
sellers, reach potential buyers.
www.bostonbubble.com

YOUR AD HERE

 
Go to: Boston real estate bubble fact list with references
More Boston Bubble News...
DISCLAIMER: The information provided on this website and in the associated forums comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, expressed or implied. You assume all risk for your own use of the information provided as the accuracy of the information is in no way guaranteed. As always, cross check information that you would deem useful against multiple, reliable, independent resources. The opinions expressed belong to the individual authors and not necessarily to other parties.

Boston Bubble Brief: The Real Story for MA - Apr 2009
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    bostonbubble.com Forum Index -> Greater Boston Real Estate & Beyond
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
balor123



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 1204

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:08 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

samz wrote:

What does your alternative look like? If you had complete control over the government (laws, regulations, everything), what would you do?


I think we can also agree that societies without strong middle classes don't last long, democracy or not capitalist or not. Societies are also stronger when there is opportunity to move between classes, though it isn't necessary as long as the majority of the population is happy I think.

You have problems in societies when people are becoming poorer and the class division is widening even further. One could argue that this is happening right now (bailouts to bankers) and probably most of the population feels hopeless since the banks have so much influence over politics. What's keeping this country together right now is that money isn't being redistributed between poor and rich - it's being redistributed from future generations to the current non-middle class generation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
GenXer



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 703

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:15 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a wet dream of socialists - to have complete control of government and laws. The future society I'd like to see is where the government DOES NOT have any control over anything, but what the Constitution said the government should have control over. Thats it. We know that redistribution destroys economies, albeit slowly, because it takes a while to discourage enterpreneurship, but it does happen. There is no ideal future. I think nobody can see the future. But the populist arguments are not going to solve anything. Leaning towards 'entitlements' and 'safety nets' is proving to be a disaster in the making. It will be a matter of voters - if the number of entitlement voters outnumbers the hard working ones, consider US of A to be royally screwed. And expect businessess to try to move elsewhere. It could take many years, but nothing good will come out of it - we will collectively become a poorer country with rationed everything. I think many people have no idea what it is like to live in a society where everything is rationed and decided upon by the 'higher' authority.

At some point, the ability of our government to destroy our lives will be much more than our ability to prosper under such a government, and I'm afraid this moment is now. Several more entitlement programs and several more taxes, and I'm afraid we'll reach our breaking point.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
balor123



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 1204

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:21 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I think safety nets help entrepreneurship because they give you the ability to take risk. My entrepreneurship professor at Cornell mentioned that he had lived off food stamps at one point due to failed startups for example. There's a difference between safety nets and entitlement. The challenging part is making sure that people don't make a living off safety nets.

The best solution to a growing gap between classes comes from giving resources and opportunities to the lower classes which allow them to earn their way up. An education system where poor kids get insufficient education at the expense of rich kids doesn't make sense. Furthermore, you need to make sure that as kids are growing up that they aren't hindered by their parent's social status. Conditions are for the most part better here in this respect than elsewhere in the world but still not great. I think Texas has it right: all schools have equal access to funding.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Boston ITer
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:19 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think Texas has it right: all schools have equal access to funding.


But also, Texas has diversified out of the oil patch-only type of economy. That was the reason for the mid-80s real estate bust which nearly obliterated many workers down there for a decade and a half. I think that's where Texas has the greatest benefit because now, not only does the younger generation have access to education, both grade school and university, but also jobs and reasonable housing once out in the job market. In contrast, most of us in Boston feel like Britain, during the 70s/80s, where there's a lot of antiquarian stuff lying around but limited job opportunities with stagnant wages. Fortunately, we don't need an additional passport to move to TX.
Back to top
GenXer



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 703

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:01 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The best solution to a growing gap between classes comes from giving resources and opportunities to the lower classes which allow them to earn their way up. An education system where poor kids get insufficient education at the expense of rich kids doesn't make sense. Furthermore, you need to make sure that as kids are growing up that they aren't hindered by their parent's social status. Conditions are for the most part better here in this respect than elsewhere in the world but still not great. I think Texas has it right: all schools have equal access to funding.


This is just not true. There have been multiple cases (well, pretty much all of the cases) when an enormous amounts of money was spent on inner city schools, and the results were disastrous, simply because the right culture did not exist (and neither did the right support network at home).

Nothing is done at the expense of anybody. Rich towns spend more money, but more money never translates with better education. They have more money, so they spend more money, but the kids in rich towns will do well regardless of how much money is spent. They have both the incentive and the support network to do well. I went to school in both rich and poor towns, and I can tell the difference.

Last time I checked there is reverse discrimination going on, so it actually helps to be from a 'minority' - you instantly qualify for preferential treatment. Besides, it is the socialists who want to start raising kids the 'right' way. All of the kids. You can not do that - parents have their choices in how they raise their kids. You can not make sure they do it right. Just like you can not make sure people will make the right financial decisions. Everybody lives with the consequences of their decisions, and the difference between socialists and realists is that the socialists want to tell everybody how to live, while the realists prefer to make their own decisions, whether bad or good, without hindrance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Xenos



Joined: 24 Jun 2009
Posts: 31
Location: Western Mass

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:56 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not just the inner city. Out in rural areas the schools can seem like pointless dollar holes, where money pours in with very little in the way of improved outcomes coming back out. A lot of this has to do with schools being one of the main ways that social services are delivered to poor communities. There is a lot more than plain three-r teaching going on.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
samz



Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 102
Location: Medford, MA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:37 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

GenXer wrote:
This is a wet dream of socialists - to have complete control of government and laws. The future society I'd like to see is where the government DOES NOT have any control over anything, but what the Constitution said the government should have control over. Thats it. We know that redistribution destroys economies, albeit slowly, because it takes a while to discourage enterpreneurship, but it does happen. There is no ideal future. I think nobody can see the future. But the populist arguments are not going to solve anything. Leaning towards 'entitlements' and 'safety nets' is proving to be a disaster in the making. It will be a matter of voters - if the number of entitlement voters outnumbers the hard working ones, consider US of A to be royally screwed. And expect businessess to try to move elsewhere. It could take many years, but nothing good will come out of it - we will collectively become a poorer country with rationed everything. I think many people have no idea what it is like to live in a society where everything is rationed and decided upon by the 'higher' authority.


But I guess this is my point: know one knows whether that would work. It could actually be worse. Is there evidence that a completely minimalist government produces some benefit, other than the purely intellectual appeal of the idea?

A while back I did an informal survey of a bunch of different metrics to compare more "socialist" states like Mass, with more minimalist states, like, say Arizona. I could barely find a single indicator that life there is somehow better.

Clearly, it's a matter of degree, and entitlements can eat us alive. I'm not arguing for either extreme. I think we need a balance. I doubt that capitalism works very well without a solid regulatory structure, a health and well-educated work-force, law enforcement, etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
balor123



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 1204

PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:43 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main difference that I can see is that we pay more for the same services here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    bostonbubble.com Forum Index -> Greater Boston Real Estate & Beyond All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Page 7 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Forum posts are owned by the original posters.
Forum boards are Copyright 2005 - present, bostonbubble.com.
Privacy policy in effect.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group